Friday, April 11, 2008

How is Frugality Defined

For weeks now Ive been wanting to approach this topic. I just don't know quite how to go about it. If you admit you're not hurting in the financial arena then you're bragging. To be poor is much more acceptable. You are humble when you are poor. People pity you when you are poor; they empathize with you. When you are free from financial obligations people think you cant possibly relate to them so you who are comfortable financially downplay the comfortable part to make yourselves more palatable to the less comfortable crowd. Are you clicking off of here yet? I bet you are. But hang with me here.

We, the Darlings are not rich by any means; but neither are we poor. That makes us very comfortably a part of Americas middle class. They say the middle class is disappearing, being swallowed up by the upper and lower classes. If the middle class does become extinct which side would we fall on? I mean we have to go somewhere. Would the fact that we are out of debt including our mortgage, tilt us toward the upper class? But how can we be part of the upper crust when we don't have millions of dollars and my husband has to work a blue collar job?

I've been thinking about all this as I've been perusing blogs and I've been wondering why there are so many blogs out there on frugality? Is frugality only for those who have to be frugal?

I happen to be in a unique position; middle class yet retaining the knowledge and the ability to be self sustaining as a family if the need arose. So how does the middle class spell frugality? What does it look like to the middle class?

I don't need food banks and co-ops to put food on my table. I don't have to shop the thrift stores unless I feel like it just for the fun of the hunt. I don't have to garage sale. I don't have to wait on the Presidents kicker check to pay bills nor do I need the tax refund to keep me afloat for awhile. I owe this to Gods blessing and to my husband who works hard to provide for us and who takes care of all the bills.

So what does frugality look like to me? I practice being frugal in small ways. I suppose most of my savings happen in the kitchen. I cook meals from scratch. We buy bulk foods and I store them in canisters that are 25 years old. We seldom eat out but then again I realize seldom is a relative word. I would guess we eat out about twice a month. I can and freeze and grow a lot of my own food. Does this make me frugal?

Another way I save money is on my hair and shampoos. I'm quite content with $.98 shampoos. I have my hair colored only twice a year when most of my girlfriends have their hair salon colored at least four times a year. But is this frugality when I have my nails done every three weeks?

I'm also frugal in that I drive old cars. Now my cars are very dependable and nice but one of them is a 1993 Honda Accord and the other is a 1997 Ford Expedition. We bought the Honda used about ten years ago and the Expedition we bought spanking new in October of '96. We paid cash for both vehicles. Our savings come into play when you realize that the Expedition is 11 years old and only has 50,000 miles on it. We bought because so much of our family lives hours away and we wanted a comfortable, roomy vehicle to travel in. Tink was due that December so it was sort of a celebration gift to ourselves. But the fact remains I have an SUV! How is this frugal?

We live in a house that is 25 years old when we could afford a gorgeous home much better than this one. Does that make me more godly than the person who lives in a mansion?

Could you say Im frugal because I never shop high end stores or is frugality found only in the yard sales and thrift stores? If I pay $100 for an unnecessary item, such as a picture for my wall, and some one else buys a picture for their wall off of Craigslist and they only pay $10 for it, am I less frugal then they are? Your first thought would be that the one who bought off of craigslist is the most frugal but a closer look might prove you wrong.

If I spend one hundred dollars but I have a thousand dollars in my account that is strictly mad money, meaning all the bills and all the credit cards are paid off, there's money in savings and in retirement and college funds, the pantries are stocked with food - if that is the case for me then am I less frugal then the one that paid ten dollars but is in debt and has no idea where groceries and gas money are coming from the next week?

Have you thought about this stuff? Is there godliness in frugality? Is there more virtue in being frugal then in paying full price even though you can afford it? Is the frugal person who is in debt on a higher moral plain then the person who is not frugal but owes no man anything?

Are we placing virtue where virtue is not due? Are we applauding the poor man for his savings at the grocery counter and looking down on the man that was once so poor he had to drink powdered milk that was 3/4 water but now he is buying rich cream at full price?

Do we ever think that the family we see living comfortably may have gone through lean years to achieve that comfort? Do you ever take a close honest look at your poorer state and realize that it's not all life's hard knocks that put you there but a lot of poor choices along the way have also contributed? Do you not realize that the people you see living more comfortably than you have also had just as many setbacks but they handled them differently?

Does it ever dawn on anyone that hard work pays dividends in the end and its not how much you make but how much you spend that determines where you are financially? Do we understand that a millionaire can be poor if he mishandles his money and that a poor man can be rich if he wisely counts each penny?

I've asked more questions then I've answered. Do you want to know what I think? I think being frugal is synonymous with being responsible. Frugal living gets you to where you want to be in life if you are frugal with both hands. If the right hand is spending money but the left hand is being frugal there is nothing to gain from frugality. But, I caution you not to place your perception of frugality on another individual. What is frugal for one is not frugal for another. I fear frugality has become a thing of piety among us. Think about that for a minute and you may see the truth in it.

On one of the blogs someone defined my lifestyle when they were defining their own. She said, "We have all of what we need and some of what we want." I agree with that. I would say that rightly sums up where we are in life.

What do you think? Is frugality over glorified among us or is frugality a virtue of great worth? What does being frugal mean to you? What does it look like in your household? Are you blessed because you followed the principles for financial freedom and now you are ashamed to admit you're blessed lest someone think you're boasting? If you are very frugal do you know why you are being frugal? Is there a goal? Where is your frugality getting you? Do you think about these things?

Invariably when I post things like this I get twenty and ten emails from people who think I am talking about them. Lest anyone think that this time let me link you to the post that inspired this one. Its found at Like Merchant Ships

55 people discussing the dribbles:

Cajunchic said...

I think frugality is a state of mind not a state of income. We do not own our own home due to silly choices when younger but we do have some pricey furniture, two vehicles, use our tax refund for savings or a fun trip rather than to get by, the same with the stimulus, I do not garage sale (although I do use thrift stores) and I do not have to bring home any "online" income for me to stay home. However I am frugal in that I will shop until I can find the absolute best deal (I get a thrill out of it), I cook from scratch,and we cut back wherever we can so that we can save and hopefully one day have our own home.

Ganeida said...

There is no special commendation in being *frugal* when we already are so blessed by God & so many have so little. Sorry. This is a bit of a sore point for me. We have to survive in the society in which God has placed us & we do what we can the best we can but if we are in a first world country we should be thanking God every single day of our lives that we aren't forced to practise frugality the way Africa understands frugality, or parts of Asia, Arabia, & South America.

Brumbemom said...

Mrs. D, I think that was a pretty accurate and honest post. I believe that frugality can also be a condition of the heart. I recently heard a sermon on greed and in it the speaker said, "All things belong to God and All things come from God." Anything we have is because God has allowed us to have it. I don't believe God wants Christians always walking around in misery and poverty. What kind of testimony is that to God's goodness? As long as our hearts are in the right place, and only us and God knows that, then why can't we have the nicer things in life and enjoy a comfortable life. I think alot of people associate suffering with Godliness. I don't think God wants it that way. If He has chosen to give us abilities, and has chosen to allow us to use those abilities to have a comfortable life, then wouldn't it be wrong to not graciously accept those blessings. Of course, we still have to be responsible and use those blessings in a way that would be pleasing, but shouldn't that be between us and Him.
Thanks for the "coffee" :-)

Marva said...

I think we are over overly blessed in many ways here in this wonderful free land we ive in. I know I am. You hit the nail on the head Mrs. Darling and gave me some wonderful insight. Thank you and many blessings!!!

Kate in NJ said...

Good post.:-)

Vanessa said...

What is frugal to me? I don't think I can really define it. I make a budget and try to stick to it. I cook almost everything from scratch. I comp shop, but don't really use coupons because I don't really use brand names. After reading Dave Ramsey's book I am trying to follow it to become debt free. We do not own our home and we have two credit cards, one of them being fairly high. But we just paid off my car so we no longer have a car payment and are now putting that money to our cc's.

I stay home with my kids and hs them which makes some in my family call me the "rich one". Does that make me rich?

I think that frugality is different for everyone. I look for ways to be frugal all the time. But as you pointed out and I aggree what I think it is may be not what you think it is.

BTW I love your page picture, I would love to change mine but don't know how.
Vanessa

srs said...

There is neither right nor wrong in frugality or extravagance. Godliness exists only in stewardship.

Mrs. Darling said...

Isnt that just like a man? Summin' it up in a nutshell.

As some of you have pointed out we are all rich in America. Yet isnt it funny how we point fingers and how we develop attitudes. Hmmmm.

Sara said...

Good, thought provoking post. Like others said, we are all rich by world standards, and there is no special virtue in being frugal. My own aim is more for good stewardship of resources than frugality. I'd rather spend more money for humanely raised and slaughtered meat, for instance - or organic produce.

Rachelle said...

What a thought provoking post. This is an issue that my husband and I have discussed extensively. He's a financial planner, so he's seen a lot. And right within our own family there are people who own multi-million dollar companies, those who are struggling to pay the bills and others, like us, who are somewhere in between. I think you made a very good point when you spoke of being where we are because of choices we have made. In my mind, that's basically talking about stewardship. What do we do with what we are given? I could go on, but I'll leave it there. Excellent post!

~Nancy~ said...

I am frugal. But I also like to buy stuff.
We are blessed that my Feller is a physician and we have NO bills, at all. He paid cash for our house 4 years ago when I moved here - it's 12 years old, 4000 square feet. Plus, he paid cash for the two acres next to us so no one could build right next door. He paid cash for our cars. BUT, I drive a 2001 Sonata, my college daughter drives a 98 Explorer that I bought her in high school, and he drives a 96 Camry! We own 5 boats and have every toy you can imagine to go with them. All of the boats are used and he works on them.
We have a home full of lovely antiques and decor items. I have more nice clothes than I will ever wear.
And I THRIFT them all! I have NO qualms about buying clothes and pretties at yard sales, Estate sales, and flea markets. I actually enjoy it. It is work but I am good at it and I look forward to finding the treasures I have.
We pinch every penny and plan to spend our retirement traveling and not having to wonder whether to buy food or medicine.
I know it is not for everyone but we compare costs of everything that we buy, even fast food on little day trips out treasure hunting. I use coupons when I can. I have a stockpile of surplus food that would feed us for weeks if need be. And I only spend about $300.00 a month on groceries. We do eat out about 2-3 times a month but it is a special treat for us - it's our "dates". We like it. If we had to scrimp to do it, we wouldn't.
While we have the means to live more extravagantly, we choose to be frugal and careful and save where we can. Neither of us wants to be poor when we are old.
(Sorry this is so long!)

Mary said...

I guess for me, frugality means making the right financial decision at the time. So, if my kids need an extra pair of mittens to keep in the mini-van, I'm more likely to check the Salvation Army thrift store dollar bin vs. Wal-mart $5 mittens. The S.A. thrift is much closer and I can walk, and I have the time, so why not? I think being frugal is just being more wise with our finances which allows me to stay home with the kids on my husband's meager military income.

I will admit to the fact the driving force behind my husband's request for transfer out of Alaska is the worry for financial crisis. It's just become too expensive for us to live here.

Beth said...

Great post, Mrs. D. I'm enjoying the comments, too.

My DH and I were just talking about this last night because I was telling him I want to buy some more forks and spoons and also some cute plastic cups for when we have kids over. My approach to buying these is to think about what I want, research some brands, and then watch for a good sale price at HomeGoods or Kohls or Target.

I have a good friend whose husband makes a bunch more money than my DH, but she is a more "frugal" shopper than I am. If she were going to buy utensils and cups, she'd put them on her list to look at as she makes her rounds of thrift shops, salvage stores, and garage sales. She'd find some really cute stuff at fabulous bargain prices.

So, I was telling DH that I feel guilty for not shopping like that. And he told me to STOP IT. :) He pointed out that I am not a shopper, this friend likes to shop for recreation and her husband is fine with that...and it pleases them both that she can have her fun shopping at a cheap price. He pointed out that to that kind of shopping I would have to neglect things I'm currently doing at home, it would cost us a lot more in gas for the car, and it would take energy and strength when I don't have extra to waste.

So...maybe all that to say that frugality is different for every family.

And I agree with the other ladies who pointed out that all of us in America, especially those of us who can afford computers, are RICH compared to the rest of the world.

Alexandra said...

What I get out of your post is that frugality in order to live within a budget looks different in each household.

We set our priorities within a budget. We are frugal in most areas so that we can build our savings for home improvements, vehicles, education and travel. Right now we are focusing on paying off the mortagage and saving for a new car for hubbie. He's got the old 1993 Honda which may give out in the next five years.

Mrs. Darling said...

Exactly Alexandra. It is differnet for everybody and that can even be seen in these comments. An interesting read to be sure!

kerri @ gladoil said...

I so agree. I remember someone on their blog talking about the wastefulness of buying butter rather than margarine and there was definately a moral overtone put on it. Can you imagine what my blessed husband would do if I brought home margarine?????? He does NOT want me to be frugal in that area!!! If he has a little money to spend on pleasure, he wants a steak. Well, he works hard. Shouldn't he get his steak if he wants it? He doesn't, on the other hand, really care to have a big TV or new car or a nice stereo system in his car.

A lot of times we women place judgements on each other when really, it's a desicion a wife needs to make in order with what her HUSBAND wants, not the "godly womanhood" circle at church.

Plus there's just a smallness in some people who can't rejoice with other people over the blessings they have in their life. All they think about is comparing it with what they have or don't have.

Laura said...

Mrs. Darling - if you were here this very moment I would stand up to applaud you, then run give you a huge hug!

This post really spoke to me, in a very big way. I haven't been as frugal as I need to be since buying our home (sorry, taking a mortgage out so we can own our home in 30 years - it's not ours yet). Although we do think that our home is a blessing from God, it has come at a cost. It is apparent that we really didn't have the money to move into a fixer upper - because the fixer-uppering is costing a lot more than we anticipated, and we don't want to take out additional debt to remodel - so we are doing it on a cash only basis. That's after, of course, racking up debt last summer through credit cards just to get the house ready for us to move into.

Through all the debt that we incurred, I still haven't managed to change our spending habits, and that is a huge sin. We are living like we did before we moved into this money-guzzler of a home, and yet we still have the same lifestyle - eating out on a whim, not couponing, buying what we want when we want to, instead of saving up or waiting for a better deal.

Sad, sad, sad.

Your post was very convicting to me. You've given me the oomph I needed to get in gear and do things the right way - we'll never make it otherwise.

And I want to have a happy retirement with my hubby, a debt-free one.

I'll post on my goals at a later time, on my own blog. I've got some serious thinking to do right now... thanks for that. :-)

La Dolce Vita with LeAnn said...

Good Morning Mrs. Darling,

First let me say that I so enjoy visiting your blog. You are witty, charming, great teacher, wife, and mom. What more could anyone ask for. My father has always told me not to discuss money with anyone other than my husband...and of course my father. So I try to stay away from anything that might make me use figures..lol. But your points are all well taken and I agree with you 100%.

Thanks for stopping by my blog and leaving your comment this morning. The short story was total realistic fiction, made up this morning. I kinda had fun doing it. My first attempt!

Sassy Mama Bear said...

Frugality comes out of necessity at times for us, such as when a crisis like an unexpected move hits us.
Frugality is a choice and a way of life though, it makes me no better or no worse than any other person in God's eyes.
I make choices when I need to or when I want to.
Definitely a loaded topic though, and I would never claim to be an expert on the topic...and those who do, their way of living is definitely always feasible for the majority of people.

margaret said...

Love it.
I have friends who are SIL's and their mother/MIL goes gargae saling all summer. They don't need to buy shoes and jeans for their children until they are well into their teens. MIL buys it and stockpiles it.
Me? I have four young children and it's hard to make arrangements for them so I can go to garage sales not to mention all the extra junk I would bring home with very few jeans or shoes to show for.
It makes me uncomfortable to go shopping in stores with these friends because I always spend way more than they do.
BUT, I know I save money, keep clutter down and have good clothes for my children. It is different for everyone.

Bridget said...

Being frugal to me isn't just about money, but also about recycling, second hand clothes,meals from scratch, less packaging,growing our own veg, freezing it, composting,saving water , turning off lights, not to save money but energy for the planet. Does that make sense or have I missed the point completely?

Victoria M said...

Love the post, love the blog! I've just found it and am having fun catching up.
This is a very timely discussion for my family--my husband has recently recieved a substantial pay change (to the better) and I have been re-evaluating the way I think about spending. The first years I was home with our children, we were very frugal from necessity. Now, we are more comfortable and can easily meet all our basic needs. (Praise God) I had been one of the "margarine instead of butter" women but now can afford the butter. I still hear the parsimonious little voice when I shop--"Couldn't you make that yourself and save the money? Why not but the cheaper brand, even though you don't like it? You'll save a dollar" ;)
But here is the core issue I ponder--since we have more than we need, what is our obligation to those who have less? I have not heard anyone mention giving excess money away to the needy. I wonder what you all think about living frugally in order to be able to give more? I realize that this tinges into the holier-than-thou attitude about spending, and it is not my intention to offend anyone--this is a sincere question I struggle with. Here's hoping you'll still talk to me... :)

Mrs. Darling said...

I think that we all should be giving if we have the means. We give substantially to charities every year. I also give my time and home cooked meals to people. I tithe out of my income which isnt much. We dont tithe out of hubbys income because he has an entirely different take on where his money should go. Goodness thats a post in itself! LOL
Butyes, I think we should all have a cushion set aside to help those less fortunate
And of course, you can still be our friend. Welcome to the Dishpan and all its hen parties! :)

Victoria M said...

Thanks for the welcome! Yeah, I think I could get comfortable here...

Jennifer said...

We started down the road to frugality when it was an absolute neccessity. We have continued to do so in order to stay out of debt while affording a few luxuries. By luxuries I mean not a bare bones grocery budget, gymnastics and other kids activities. At this point if we were not frugal then I am sure we would be either in debt or not afford any extras of anything. We wouldn't put any money into savings if we weren't frugal.
My sister is not frugal in the least and we get along just fine. She doesn't have to be and with 6 kids she really doesn't have the time to do the things that I do. I don't believe that everyone else needs to be frugal, although i do think it would really help the environment. See there is another reason why we are frugal. The list goes on and on, but honestly, sometimes I am embarrased by my frugality, not proud of it. If only the neighbors knew! LOL I am not so ashamed that I won't do it though. thought provokiing post Mrs Darling!

Kristenph said...

Excellent post. I agree that frugalness has become somewhat of a badge of honor in some circles. Also, have you ever noticed that no one ever says they are rich? I know people who live in million dollar homes, go on 4 vacations a year, etc., but they're not rich? It's like something to be ashamed of.

(Don't get me wrong though, I'm not rich! ha ha )

MyKidsMom said...

HaHa..I'm laughing because I am getting ready to do a post about simple living/frugalness and you will probably think my spin on it is talking about you!

I think that many who talk about frugality MAY be leaning towards a simpler way of life (stick with me here) and a non-materialistic approach to it; not all mind you, but most the ones I faithfully read. I have been just thinking and really studying this thought and have come to some interesting personal conclusions on it (thus my coming post). I'm actually not at all a "frugal" fan..but I quess I have a different idea of it.

And I could be as rich as Bill Gates and would STILL shop my beloved thrift stores!!! For some of us, it's the trill of the hunt..

Mrs. Darling said...

Yes, I know thats why I love to garage sale. Its such a primitive thing, hunting for the best berries and the best feeding grounds, hunting for the best garage sale-get the similarities? tee hee.

Im sure some are frugal so they can lead a simpler life but there again simple is relative. Thats been hashed and rehashed in many blogs including mine.

A non materialistic approach to life can again smack of holier than thou. If you all read my post on the simple life you will remember the analogy I drew of the two neighbor women who were doing the exact opposite of each other both in the name of simplicity.

And let me throw this into the mix of comments. Some of the very richest people are the least materialistic. I know a lot of comfortable middle class who are not materialistic either. In fact, we don't live a materialistic lifestyle at all. That could be due to my husbands Polish roots and my Mennonite roots though.

Im not sure how being frugal equates with nonmaterialistic. In fact, dont stone me dear readers, but I think that the people who are really into frugality are some of the worst offenders when it comes to being materialistic even though they claim the opposite.

When you have the money to buy things you just buy it.

When you're working at being frugal you labor over buying it. You think and rethink it. You price and reprice and eventually you buy. The frugality beomes your source of pride.

Its a tricky thing... a slippery slope.

Im sorta playing devils advocate here to get us to think. Striving for frugality and trying to be nonmaterialistic is an honored and commendable thing in our society.

In this post Im taking up the opposite end and saying why cant we who can afford things go on and on about our purchases like the one who finds the great thrift store deal? Here's why!

If we do we are considered to be gloating and proud. But the person who shops second hand can run an entire blog on their furgality and they are praised.

Does this make sense? What would happen if those of us who are the comfortable middle class ran an entire blog listing everything we bought and taking pictures of it. Would we be called godly?

We could name it Mad Money Monday or something like that. Hmm how would that go over in the christian circles or the homeschool circles or the lower class circles or the welfare circles.

Do you all get what Im saying?

Mary said...

I have to say, Mrs. Darling, that I've read some of the blogs that talk about their frugal shopping and gloriously display all their goods that they've purchased for just a few dollars. I can't say that I agree with buying something just because it's on sale. I can't say that my main goal is feeding my family for as cheap as possible, enjoying family meals is important to me. We are a "buy the butter" family.
I think my frugality comes from more of a mindset of why buy the kids new jeans when they are just going to be play clothes? And I quietly purchase their 2nd hand clothes and move on with my life. However, I can see the slippery slope with the wives/mothers who are constantly attaching a pricetag to their lives and looking for affirmation by their ability to bargain hunt. While I do think it's human nature to be pleased when we score eggs on sale B1G1 Free, it takes things one step to far to be braggarts about it.

Mrs. Darling said...

Yes, I think buying things on sale is just wise. But I never think about the fact that I am being frugal. I guess Im weird.

And believe me I dont think there's anything wrong with being frugal. Thats not the gist of this post. This post is about asking the hard questions of why? Why are we frugal? Why is being frugal so glorified? Is there an end to our means?

Deb said...

"We have all of what we need and some of what we want." I love that quote. I appreciate your thoughts here.

Becca said...

Such an interesting post!! We're so blessed here--sometimes I feel very guilty that I don't have to be frugal anymore. That I can buy whatever I want to at the grocery store without really stressing about the price. The whole 'godly frugality' thing is such an interesting discussion, isn't it? I've loved reading different thoughts around the blogosphere.

Jennifer in OR said...

I view being frugal as just being wise about certain things pertaining to both economy and character. Mostly not being gluttonous and wasteful. Millionaires can be frugal by making wise investments of their money; the poor can be frugal by making different types of choices that involve their very survival...I think of the parable of the talents, and it's all about what you do with what you're given.

Nice job!! Great comments here, I enjoyed every one of them!

molytail said...

I think that while I always attempted to be 'frugal' (never thinking of it in those terms though) I had it arse over kettle and never quite got it. We still - despite being mostly broke and all - managed to get into debt and now have a whack of debts (loans and credit cards) to try and pay off. Dh has a better paying job now (though it takes him away from here) and we want to try and be more resourceful with our money - here we were, clipping coupons (I went through an avid coupon clipping phase - stacks of them! Everywhere!) and stalking yard sales (I still do that) but yet racking up debts in other areas. We were focused on the wrong thing. I thought it was great that I was using these coupons,but we weren't managing the other money well at all. Okay, this is sorta not related to your post, but my mind jumps around sometimes LOL

I think it's fantastic if a person can save money in the end - but I don't think that it's something to really boast about...I mean, there's a difference between telling a friend "hey, check out the ____ I snagged at the flea market!" and setting up a website devoted to showing off your things and how cheaply you acquired them...which i know exist out there...

Also, if a person *has* more money than another - it's their business what they do with it! If someone has the financial ability to buy a brand new $2000 couch, all the power to them. It's their money to spend as they please and I would never look down on them for that, despite the fact that I refuse to spend that much money on a couch {with 5 cats and 2 kids, we're rough on couches - it wouldn't make sense LOL) ....eh, I guess what I mean is..what business is it of anyone's as to what other people spend on what?

Arden said...

Mrs. Darling,

Great subject. I answered on my blog but I will recap.
As the other commenter said, for me it's a matter of stewardship and goals. Frugality is just a method I use to get to my greater goal and that is living within our means. I believe that is critical for our large family and certainly something to teach the children.

a Tonggu Momma said...

I agree with srs: it's good stewardship that is Godly.

As with all issues about money, it's not how much (or how little) you have, but your attitude toward and about it.

As for living frugally... many people do that in a Godly way. For others, it's all about pride (*I* got the best price; look at what a deal *I* found; I work *so hard* to save money, why don't others do the same?)

Our family goal is to live simply, give richly, teach our children financial responsibility, and to be content in all circumstances.

Mima said...

I always think how lucky I am that I live in the UK, and don't have to live in 3rd world conditions, there is no way that I would have survived as long as I have. I live in a country with good free healthcare as well, so I don't have to worry about health costs. I have enough money to be comfortable, and I do give to charity. But I wouldn't describe myself as frugal - I can't get out to thrift shops as I am stuck in bed, and someone else has to do my shopping, and I have to trust that they will get the best deal that they can. I am not well enough to go out, so no meals out, but we do occasionally have delivery food (Chinese) as a treat. And I think myself very lucky that my care is funded, if it wasn't, my life would be a very different story. I don't buy lots of clothes, because I don't need them, but I can and do have treats of DVD's to watch. I guess I am with the stewardship clan on this one!

Jennifer said...

Maybe people brag about it to make themselves feel better about only having little money to spend?

MyKidsMom said...

I find it interesting that someone would say that those who are frugal attach a pricetag to their life, and find their affirmation by doing this. And to call them braggerts? That's not the impression I get at all.

I don't call myself a "frugal person" although in some ways I think I am. But I have no problem with those who are, many are on my blogroll.

I read the post at the link given and found nothing offensive in the questian that was asked...and yet so many seem to be on the defensive.

I know a well-to-do lady who I bump into at the thrift store all the time...neither of us realized that this could DEFINE our lives in such a way...we thought we were just having fun.

Still shaking my head at this one Mrs.Darling.

But then I never have understood women.

And feel free to delete...I am sure to have started another debate or lost potential readers...but then life will probably still go on, somehow.

Carol said...

I think you summed it up perfectly Mrs Darling. Its all a matter of perception, as so many things in this life are.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
C
x

Mrs. Darling said...

Jennifer you ask if it could be that many people brag to make themselves feel better about having little money. I believe that is true.

We do have to remember that there are people that brag because they do have money too.

Frugality is a good thing. I would never say it isnt! But it's also a good thing to not have to rely on being frugal to make it from paychceck to paycheck.

Its interesting to go back a hundred years. They didnt give a thought to being frugal. You were rich or poor, and the poor longed to become the rich therefore it was not becoming for the rich to say anything about their riches lest they be unsympathetic to the plight of the poor.

I think we still see that. Thats why it is acceptable to go on and on about frugality and it is not acceptable to speak of your money.

margaret said...

It can depend a lot on how you grew up or what your extended family thinks. If you grew up poor and your parents felt guilty for anything smacking of unneccesary costs (especially if you were in Plain circles) it may be a lifetime struggle to not feel guilty for normal American standards. Hence the need to reassure others you are not being a spendthrift.
And getting into frugality being materialism,I understand that too. Like a man buying property for hundreds of thousands of dollars and refusing to buy his wife furniture for a hundredth of what he spent. That is just sinful selfishness.
It is a good thing to take a hard look at why you do or don't worry about frugality.

Southerner said...

We began our frugal lifestyle because we had to when we were newly married and not making much money. We continued our frugality when we wanted to stay home with the kids and not work two jobs. We built the life that we want to be on a solid foundation of faith, stocked food, an emergency fund and skills to be very sufficient in lean times. We now do not have to be as frugal as we are, and we have made decisions to loosen up in some areas to better enjoy our life because we don't HAVE to do without- but we could if needed. I feel closer to the understanding of what Paul said when he said he has been rich and poor and learned to be content in both. I am working on that still but closer to being content in all situations financially.

A coworker of husband saw my blog and asked why I was so worried about saving money, and asked him if he gave me a certain amount to spend or something. I would hate to think I sound worried about money. Reading my blog I have stated many times that we have emergency fund and no debt and that it is a choice to use our money wisely. I save so I can give. I save so I can share meals with all the teens that come to my house daily, send things to missionary friends, give a secret money gift when I hear of someone in need, and prepare for the future raising all my kids.

Mrs. Darling said...

Well thats spot on southerner! If a person had no need to be frugal then they still should be to a degree so they have a benevolence fund so to speak. Its our attitude about our money that counts. And I'd say your husband is blessed. What husband wouldnt want his wife to be concerned about overspending? So many wives blow the budget and their marriage over this.

Melissa @ The Inspired Room said...

Well you certainly have been stirring up the pot here, Mrs. Darling! Such an interesting topic. I'm enjoying all the commentary and discussions. We talk about this a lot. So many people that appear "wealthy" are actually poor and those who appear to be "poor" can be quite well off. Appearances aren't everything.

We have butter because my naturopathic doctor said NO MARGARINE, it is like putting plastic in your body! So, having butter in our home doesn't mean we are wealthy or careless with our money, it just means we don't want margarine. So many things can be misinterpreted!

Oh, how I would love to keep talking here but my husband wants me to get off the computer!

Sorry, gotta run! :-)

Our Red House said...

Y'know, in one of LM Montgomery's books, Anne refers to a man as being 'as mean as second skimmings'. In other words, this dairy farmer skimmed the cream from his milk for butter, then skimmed it again so that his children had to grow up on skim milk. To deprive children of necessary fat and natural food was considered incredibly miserly.

I think we live in a strange world where 'diet' milk costs more than full cream (at least here in Oz), and where people are proud of the coupon deals they get for junk food, but "can't afford" fresh fruit and vegetables.

I suspect some folks who spend more but buy mostly what they need and goods that will last, are thriftier in a traditional sense than some who spend less and deny themselves quality.

Kate

Mrs. Darling said...

Kate,I had totally forgotten that quote. I remember it well now that you mention it. That really is a good simile for what is happening with some people.

Jack's Mommy said...

WOW! What a post! I've never honestly thought of it in this depth.

Being a newlywed (well, we're approaching our 2nd anniversary), with our first baby due in 3 weeks - and with me having been laid off recently and now a stay at home mom - "being frugal" is something deal with a lot. We define "frugal" as "making sure our income is always more than our outgo". We havent used credit cards in 18 months even though our scores are well above 720 (a choice we made after months of foolishly spending during our first few months of marriage). We own our "own" 3 bdrm home because the fixed 30 yr mortgage ended up being $200 less than any rentals in our area. We do not use coupons because we don't use (or want) 99% of the things advertised on there. We do shop at thrift stores (i think its fun to find name brand almost-new items like nautica and old navy for 50 cent)..but that's not often because we hardly ever shop for "stuff", period. We haven't purchased any "new store" retail clothes in 14 months..not because of frugal-deprivation - we just don't need them (our closets are overflowing). We don't have new furniture...but that's perfectly fine. We truly like our 2nd hand things..they're quite nice! We are very attuned to the differences between our "wants" (a plasma TV) and our needs (a new laminate floor -paid for with cash- because we were walking on splintered subfloor in the hallway). We don't cut corners in the name of frugality if we know that will lead to waste (i.e. we're NOT do-it-yourselfers and will end up causing ruin to a project...so we WILL pay for labor). We also do not buy storebrand products that we dislike (and therefore wont eat!) when we can spend $1 - $2 more and get the brand we do like (and wont waste).

I also find that between frugality & happiness is a fine line of balance that you must walk. Neither one of us are "happy" trying to wash out ziplock bags for reuse. My husband's work clothes (he works for a utility company) simply do not come clean with a cheaper laundry detergent as they will with TIDE. Taking a timed cold shower to save a few dollars in electric and water per month is unbearable. Keeping the air condition set at 78 degrees in the southern summer to "save money" ends up feeling like death instead. Going without TV when we CAN afford a basic dishnetwork package is hard on my husband (who doesn't read books as entertainment). "Frugal" things such as those are not worth the savings when they suck the life out of our core happiness.

So the aim of OUR frugality (in this order) is to 1) ensure that all of our bills are paid, 2) we stay out of unsecured debt, 3) we're saving for the future, 4) our basic needs are met, and finally, 5) we must ensure that we are not too miserable in accomplishing the first four.

How we accomplish the 5 tasks above all depend on our level of income at any particular moment. When we get to the point where we have our bills paid, our savings are going strong, and our madmoney is at a higher level, then we will buy that $3000 plasma TV with cash - with no regrets. :)

Mrs. Darling said...

Thnak you Jacks mommy for that thoughtful comment. And thank you feeling free to comment. It appears like you have a well thought out plan for now and the future. It is so true that we need to make sure that we are not too miserable in accomplishing pur goals. And good for you for purchasing a house. What a great investment!

Mrs. Darling said...

By the way if you check back here Kate from our red house Ive been wanting to tell you that I cant read your blog cause it freezes up my computer and I have to shut everything down. I have no idea why. I can read it in google though so just know Im out there! :)

proverbs31 said...

Excellent points! I agree, if you have your bills paid and are living comfortably, there is no reason to forbid yourself EVERY indulgence, but you're still called not to give in to all of them and be good stewards, it's a good balance.

I wrote a post a while back about this, I'm not sure if you've read it. I'm coming from the other side of the tracks (where it's a regular struggle to make ends meet), so I only touched on being frugal when there is plenty, and a lot of the post focused on grocery shopping.. but I think we're in agreement on the heart-attitude behind it all. Whether you have much or little.

By the way, this is a lesson we've learned the hard way. At one point we were 'living in the land of plenty,' and we wasted most of it. The last seven years have been a lesson in stewardship. More than anything else, the most important lesson, has been a heart-change, more even than a change in spending.

Lyn said...

It's kind of funny to me, because someone blogged if you don't have money you shouldn't tell people, because they may worry about you or feel that you are looking for some type of pity (ummm...sure, if you say so). I really didn't agree with most of the article in general.

I share where I am at because maybe it will help someone else in similar circumstances reading my words. We live frugally out of necessity and I don't look for pity as I am quite content with my life. I certainly don't knock someone either if they have more than me. That's wonderful if someone doesn't have to struggle!

Seems like you are darned if you do and you are darned if you don't! Either we're considered to be wanting for others to feel badly if we're poor, or you are bragging if you do have money.

Can't win, can we?

PJ said...

You really do thought-provoking posts. I've enjoyed reading the comments as well. Seems the bottom line is stewardship!

Thanks for a needful topic. I have to give this one some thought.

SuzanneG said...

Mrs. Darling~
This was a GREAT post and I had so much fun reading everyone's comments, etc. Great topic and wonderful discussion!

Mrs. Darling said...

lyn yes it does seem like you are daarned if you do and darned if you dont. It goes two ways that whether rich or poor we are all human and we can all have the wrong attitude about anything.